Kyrgyzstan · Central Asia

Kyrgyzstan is my home.
Let me show you.

Small-group journeys through Kyrgyzstan: mountain roads by 4x4, personally led walks, clear lakes, yurt stays and local food. Time to explore, share a meal and enjoy the country at your own pace.

Kyrgyzstan · From the BUL travel archive
David Vainerman, founder and expedition host of BUL Exploration Base
David Vainerman · Founder & expedition host.
About BUL / Your local host

Come as a guest.
Discover my home.

I’m David. I was born and raised in Kyrgyzstan, and I personally host our journeys. I want to share the country as I know it: its mountains, people, food and favourite places.

We travel in small groups, explore by 4x4 and on foot, stay close to the landscape and make time for conversations around the table. I help plan your route and travel with you.

Find your journey ↓

Our next
journeys.

Winter skiing, MAKI in May and our summer journey, 3 Oceans of Impressions. Register your interest for 2027.

MAKI — spring at winter’s feet · May 2027 · 5 days / 4 nights ↓
01 / FEBRUARY 2027 · SKIBUL

Winter together

Seven days in Karakol and Ala-Too in Jyrgalan. Stay near the skiing, share dinner and leave time to rest.

  • 7 days · dates agreed with the group
  • Karakol and Ala-Too / Jyrgalan
  • An own-car option is available
Explore SkiBUL
02 / JUNE — SEPTEMBER 2027 · BUL

3 Oceans of Impressions

Sary-Chelek, Song-Kul and Issyk-Kul are the three principal lakes of our journey. Between them lie mountain rivers, waterfalls, passes and walking trails. The programme draws on our 2026 expedition.

  • June — September 2027 · 9 days
  • Mountain roads, lakes and four walking routes
  • A small group, personally hosted by David
Explore the itinerary
Red poppies in green grass beneath the foothills of Kyrgyzstan
BUL · May 2027 · Poppies of Kyrgyzstan

MAKISpring at winter’s feet.

Spring climbs into the mountains from below. First the valley turns green, then the foothills stir, and one day poppies open in the young grass. The wind moves through their delicate petals while snow still rests high above. Between the scarlet fields and the white peaks lies a whole world for us to explore.

On our way to the gorges, we will stop beside flowering poppy fields. Inside the valleys, early spring flowers, fresh greenery, rivers and waterfalls await. There will be time to walk, sit by the water and notice a flower we might hurry past in everyday life.

There is a place for everyone beside the samovar. I will pour you some tea, and we will talk about the roads we have travelled, then sit together in silence.

Kyrgyzstan is my home. Come as my guest.

Discuss MAKI on WhatsApp
Duration
5 days / 4 nights
Travel style
Small group
Walks
Around 1.5–3 hours

Five days of spring

Day 1

Our first meeting

We will meet you at Manas Airport, take you to your accommodation and leave time to rest after your flight.

Depending on your arrival time, we will walk around Bishkek or head out to the foothills. Over a welcome dinner of Kyrgyz dishes, we will get to know each other and talk about what you hope to find in these five days.

Day 2

Issyk-Ata — following the spring river

On the way, we will stop beside flowering poppy fields. Cloud shadows move over the flowers, with white mountains in the distance.

In the gorge, we will follow the river through greenery and early spring flowers. If conditions allow, we will walk to the waterfall before returning to a hot lunch prepared by our chef. We will set the table, pour some tea and make time to rest by the water.

Day 3

Kegety — water, mountains and hospitality

We will head to Kegety, making time for flower stops along the way. In the gorge, we will walk through the valley and visit the waterfall if the weather and trail conditions allow.

We will stop at our partner’s base and enjoy Kyrgyz cuisine. Horse riding can be arranged on request: a chance to see the valley from the saddle and discover a different pace.

Day 4

Shamsi — a day with room to linger

We will look for flowering fields on our way to Shamsi, then walk beside the river and green slopes. There will be time for photographs, rest and conversation.

For our picnic, we will grill steaks and heat the samovar. I will pour you some tea, and we will talk about the roads we have travelled, then fall quiet. The river will carry on the conversation.

In the evening, we will share a farewell dinner and remember our stops, the moments that made us laugh and the places we want to return to.

Day 5

Until the next journey

After breakfast, we will transfer you to the airport with plenty of time before your flight. If the schedule allows, we can take a walk around Bishkek or visit the bazaar.

Our guests will receive keepsake gifts from BUL, with our thanks for the days spent together and a little reminder of Kyrgyzstan.

How we travel

Stays and transport

Four nights at our partners’ glamping sites and guesthouses. We will choose the stays around the route and your preferences, then confirm driving times. We travel in prepared 4WD vehicles or a four-wheel-drive Mercedes-Benz Sprinter.

Drive yourself or travel with a driver-guide

We can provide a 4WD for you to drive as part of our group. If you prefer to relax and enjoy the views, we can arrange driver-guides.

A chef, the grill and the samovar

A chef from the BUL team travels with us. Expect hot outdoor lunches, grilled steaks, samovar tea and opportunities to try local cuisine. We will discuss your food preferences in advance.

Staying connected

We bring radios for communication between vehicles and Starlink for internet access.

Walking at your own pace

Walks take around 1.5–3 hours with stops. The effort is easy to moderate, with possible stones, gentle climbs and wet sections. We will adapt the pace and distance to the group’s fitness.

Memories to take home

On request, a mobile content creator can join us and provide photographs and video footage after the trip. We can also arrange a photo album, drawing on our experience of creating albums after previous journeys. Keepsake gifts from BUL await our guests.

This is a provisional programme. We will adapt the route, pace, accommodation and meals to your group and preferences. Flower stops depend on the actual bloom, and waterfall walks depend on weather and trail conditions. The order of outings may change. We will agree the final itinerary, price and included services before the trip.

Prices start at US$1,200 per guest. Your final quote is calculated individually based on your preferences, chosen accommodation and itinerary. Flights are not included.

Own-car participation has a separate quote. See the own-car option ↗

Discuss MAKI on WhatsApp
BUL Exploration · June — September 2027

3 Oceans
of Impressions

Kyrgyzstan has no oceans. Yet beside its lakes, rivers and mountain streams, you begin to understand: the world is vast not because it holds so many roads, but because each road leads to something beyond our understanding.

Season
June — September 2027
Duration
9 days
Format
Small groups

Sary-Chelek

Sary-Chelek lies among forests like a bowl the mountains have left for the sky. Trees, clouds and stillness are reflected in its water. Trails lead from one lake to another, and it feels as though the earth itself is keeping ancient secrets here.

Song-Kul

Song-Kul welcomes you with open skies and sweeping pastures. Horses wander by the shore, the wind moves through the grass, and in the evening a light glows inside a yurt. At night the mountains draw closer, and you hear not only the quiet around you, but yourself.

Issyk-Kul

Issyk-Kul is waves, blue water stretching beyond the horizon and snowy peaks above the southern shore. Here the water remembers ancient winds, and the mountains stand as though they know the story of everyone who comes to them.

Between the lakes lie rivers, waterfalls and mountain streams, passes, gorges, canyons and roads that make you want to stop and look back. We will walk, taste local food and gather around a shared table after a long day, with stories to remember and share.

You can take the wheel of a prepared 4WD or travel with a driver. I will be beside you throughout the journey, where the road grows more challenging and the impressions run deeper.

Three lakes and many other waters. Each has its own character, its own memory and its own ocean of impressions.

David Vainerman · BUL Exploration
Kyrgyzstan is my home. Come as my guest!

The itinerary · 9 days

  1. Bishkek — Too-Ashuu — ChychkanSet off through mountain valleys towards Sary-Chelek.
  2. Sary-ChelekLakes and forest trails, including the 11 km Six Lakes walk.
  3. Kara-Suu — Kara-Kamysh — Jalal-AbadMountain lakes, a waterfall along the way and a city stop.
  4. Kazarman — Song-KulTravel to the high-altitude lake and a yurt camp.
  5. Southern Issyk-Kul — Tosor — Ak-TengirTime by the lake and two walks: through Skazka Canyon and its surroundings.
  6. Kegety — Bishkek — Ala-ArchaKegety Gorge, a return to Bishkek and a day walk in Ala-Archa.

The plan uses three guest pickups, with no more than four people in each including the driver. A guest or a team driver can take the wheel. David accompanies the convoy in the Sprinter, which is reserved for the team.

Departures run from June to September 2027, with each journey lasting 9 days. Exact dates, itinerary and price will be agreed before a booking is confirmed. Access to high passes and Song-Kul will be checked closer to departure; any changes caused by road conditions will be discussed with the group.

Enquire about 3 OceansRegister your interest · we will confirm the itinerary and price with you
Mountain lake with rocky shores, forest and snow-covered peaks
Sary-Chelek · A lake surrounded by mountains and forest.Photo by David Vainerman.

Sary-Chelek

Our 2026 expedition included the 11 km Six Lakes walk: walnut forests, apple orchards, swimming stops and views across the lakes. A full day outside the vehicles gave the landscape time to unfold.

Skazka Canyon

We walked the established canyon route and explored an additional route in the surrounding area. Together, they brought two different walking experiences to the expedition.

Ala-Archa

A mountain walking day was part of the 2026 journey. The pace and distance of future walks will be matched to the group.

Song-Kul and Issyk-Kul

Lake stays formed part of the expedition alongside walking days and road travel. High-altitude access, including Song-Kul, must be checked for each departure.

The summer programme will draw on all four walks from the 2026 expedition. The pace and length of each walk will be agreed around the group and trail conditions.

Three BUL expedition pickups beside a mountain lake
On the road with BUL · Three pickups from our expedition.
Field notes / 28 August — 5 September 2026

A journey we have already made.

Our late-summer expedition brought together Sary-Chelek, Kara-Suu and Kara-Kamysh, Song-Kul, the southern shore of Issyk-Kul, Kegety and Ala-Archa. Three pickups carried the group and team between the walking days and overnight stops.

9days together
4walking routes
11 kmSix Lakes hike

Experienced travellers joined the trip. The walking routes became a defining part of the experience: forests and lakes, canyon terrain and a day in the mountains around Ala-Archa. This is the experience we draw on when shaping the next journey.

What does a summer journey include?

We plan the 4x4 transport, accommodation, meals, local logistics and personally led walks as one journey. On request, a chef can join the team and we can agree a menu around your dietary needs. The exact route, room and meal arrangements, included activities and price are set out for each departure before booking.

How active is it?

Walking is an important part of BUL. Some days include several hours on the trail; others leave more time for road travel, lakeside stops and rest. Tell David about your walking experience and preferred pace so the route can be discussed in practical terms.

Can we travel as our own group?

Talk to David about a journey with friends, family or a group you already lead. The season, group size, walking preferences and available time shape the proposal. The photographs here show previous experiences; the final program confirms which activities and stays are included in your trip.

BUL · Three journeys in your own car

Your own car.
BUL by your side.

Bring your family or friends and join us in your own car. We meet in Bishkek or at an agreed meeting point. You drive; my team and I travel with you and arrange accommodation, meals, walks and stops along the way.

May 2027 · 5 days / 4 nights

MAKI

Issyk-Ata, Kegety and Shamsi: poppy fields on the way to the gorges, waterfall walks, spring flowers and snowy peaks.

How the trip works

Day one is for meeting and settling in. The next three days are for gorges and walks; the trip finishes on day five.

Comfortable accommodation, hot meals from our cook, grilled steaks and samovar tea. Where practical, we use one base to avoid unnecessary packing.

We adapt the route to the group’s cars. A transfer in a BUL vehicle can be arranged where needed. Flowering locations and timing will be checked closer to departure.

Plan this trip
June–September 2027 · 9 days

3 Oceans of Impressions

Sary-Chelek, Song-Kul and Issyk-Kul. A longer 4x4 journey through mountain passes, forest trails and canyons.

How the trip works

Two nights in the Sary-Chelek area, walks by the lakes, Song-Kul’s high pastures and the canyons of Issyk-Kul’s southern shore.

Driving days alternate with walking and rest. We stay in guesthouses and yurt camps, with the facilities at each stop agreed in advance.

The full route calls for a suitably prepared 4x4 with adequate ground clearance. Before booking, we discuss every vehicle and each driver’s experience, then agree suitable road sections.

Plan this trip
February 2027 · 7 days

SkiBUL

A winter trip to Karakol and Ala-Too in Jyrgalan, with skiing, shared dinners and time to rest after the slopes.

How the trip works

We arrange accommodation, meals, ski passes and trip support. We aim to ski on weekdays and agree exact dates with the group.

We discuss winter vehicle preparation, tyres and equipment in advance. You can leave your car at the accommodation and arrange BUL transfers.

Equipment hire, lessons, private transfers and extra activities are arranged separately. The final Ala-Too programme will be confirmed after our December 2026 reconnaissance.

Plan this trip

Before departure

We discuss dates, guests, cars, driving experience, pace, meals and accommodation. I prepare a programme and quote; we then agree the details and confirm the booking.

Along the way

A BUL support vehicle travels with the group, carrying radios, Starlink, a first-aid kit and picnic equipment. I accompany the journey and lead the walks. I also guide in English.

By arrangement

A mechanic and technical support, a cook, photography and video, a shared photo album, extra activities, private transfers and vehicle delivery. Every guest receives a BUL keepsake.

Your quote

Own-car trips are priced separately, based on guests and cars, dates, route, accommodation, meals and services. Participants pay for their own fuel, road charges and vehicle expenses. Insurance and cover are agreed before booking.

Each programme is adapted to the guests and their vehicles. We agree the included services and final price before confirming the trip.

June–September 2027 · 10 days · Paved roads

3 Oceans of Impressions.
On paved roads.

For road cars and club journeys, we have a separate paved-road itinerary: Toktogul Reservoir, Sary-Chelek and Issyk-Kul. We start and finish in Bishkek. This version does not visit Song-Kul.

Bishkek → Suusamyr → Toktogul → Sary-Chelek → Manas → Kazarman → Kochkor → Ak-Tengir → Jeti-Oguz → Karakol → Tamchy → Tokmok → Bishkek → Ala-Archa

See the day-by-day itinerary
  1. Day 1 · Bishkek — ToktogulToo-Ashuu, Suusamyr and Chychkan, with photo and lunch stops. Settle in and share dinner in the evening.
  2. Day 2 · Toktogul — Sary-ChelekFollow the reservoir towards Sary-Chelek and settle into our prearranged accommodation for two nights.
  3. Day 3 · Sary-ChelekA day without a long drive: the lake, walks, an unhurried lunch and time to rest.
  4. Day 4 · Sary-Chelek — ManasDrive to Manas, formerly Jalal-Abad, with stops along the way. Stay in a city hotel with parking.
  5. Day 5 · Manas — Kazarman — KochkorThrough the Kok-Art tunnel and Kazarman on the North–South road. Rest in Kochkor that evening.
  6. Day 6 · Kochkor — Ak-TengirReach Issyk-Kul and follow its southern shore. A lakeside evening, grilled food and samovar tea, staying at the agreed property.
  7. Day 7 · Ak-Tengir — Jeti-Oguz — KarakolStop at Jeti-Oguz’s red rocks, then continue to a hotel in Karakol.
  8. Day 8 · Karakol — TamchyFollow Issyk-Kul’s northern shore, stopping by the water and for lunch. Stay in a hotel or resort.
  9. Day 9 · Tamchy — Tokmok — BishkekThrough Boom Gorge to the Chuy Valley. Visit the “Maldives” near Tokmok, then return to Bishkek.
  10. Day 10 · Ala-Archa — BishkekA final mountain outing, a walk and photographs, followed by a farewell dinner. Motorcycle groups prepare their bikes for return transport.

Accommodation and pace

We choose hotels, guesthouses and countryside properties with facilities and parking. At Ak-Tengir, we plan insulated yurts or cottages and confirm beds, bathrooms and heating in advance. There are regular stops, proper lunches and time to walk.

Join in your own carPrice, dates and pace are tailored to your group.
For your Harley-Davidson club

Ride the same route on your own motorcycles

Mountain passes, winding roads and lakeside riding. The BUL team follows in a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter carrying the luggage. A motorcycle mechanic with essential spares accompanies the group throughout.

Support and motorcycle transport

The programme includes accommodation, breakfast, lunch and dinner, a cook, grill and picnic equipment, radios, Starlink and keepsakes. Photography and video can be arranged.

We arrange collection in Russia, preparation, delivery to Bishkek and return transport. Shipping costs and timing depend on the departure city and number of bikes, and appear as a separate item in the overall quote.

We choose accommodation with bathrooms, hot water, heating or air conditioning, a restaurant and parking. There are no camping nights in this programme. Rest days, riding stages and accommodation can be adapted for your club. Flights and additional services are quoted separately.

Plan a club ride
By request / Add to your itinerary

More to experience
along the way

We can arrange additional activities as part of your main journey. The format, duration and participation arrangements are agreed in advance.

  • Cycling trips

  • Quad-bike routes

  • Paddleboarding

  • Horse riding

  • Falconry

Discuss optional activities ↓
Food & hospitality

Get to know Kyrgyzstan
around the table.

Local dishes, mountain picnics and shared meals are part of the journey. There is time to taste, talk and enjoy the welcome.

A taste of Kyrgyz cuisine.

We include opportunities to try national dishes at local places, guesthouses and yurt camps along the route. Discover the flavours and the hospitality that come with them.

Beshbarmak
Meat, noodles and broth — a hearty introduction to the local table.
Kuurdak
A warm, filling meat dish after time outdoors.
Boorsok
Small pieces of fried dough, served fresh with tea and shared meals.

The tasting stops depend on the route and season. Tell us about your food preferences when we plan the journey.

One day · Family or a small group

A picnic with BUL

Come in your own car and join us for a gorge walk and an outdoor lunch. BUL transport can also be arranged.

We set up a table, chairs and shelter, grill steaks and serve tea from a samovar, leaving time for a walk and an unhurried afternoon.

We choose the gorge to suit the season, weather, preferred walk and your vehicles. The quote is tailored to your group; own-car fuel and expenses are paid separately.

Plan a picnic
An optional addition for your group

A chef on
your journey.

By prior arrangement, a chef can join the team to prepare regular meals throughout your trip and cook dishes to suit your guests’ requests.

We agree the menu, meal times and chef arrangements while planning your route.

A menu shaped around you

Tell us about your favourite dishes, food preferences and ingredient restrictions. You can request:

  • Halal meals
  • Kosher meals
  • Vegetarian meals
  • Meals for specific dietary needs
Discuss your menu and chef ↓
Our vehicles / From the expedition

Meet the vehicles
behind the journey.

Our 2026 expedition travelled with three pickups, carrying guests, the team and equipment between mountain walks and overnight stops.

Aerial view of three BUL expedition pickups beside wooden guest cabins
Our three-pickup convoyBUL vehicles beside the guest cabins during the 2026 expedition.

Communication, navigation and preparation.

  • Two-way radios

    Communication between vehicles to coordinate the convoy, stops and changes along the route.

  • Navigation

    Routes prepared in advance, with navigation for travel between destinations.

  • Starlink

    Satellite internet throughout the journey, including while on the move.

  • First-aid kit

    A first-aid kit travels with the group throughout the trip.

  • Insurance

    Before booking, we agree insurance arrangements for the route and activities: the required cover, who arranges the policies and what is included in the trip price.

A winding gravel road across the slopes of a mountain pass
Mountain roads · A stretch of road from our journey.

Part of the expedition.

These are the vehicles from our own journeys. The photographs show how we travel: pickups together on the road, equipment on board and time to stop along the way.

We plan transport around the route, group and luggage. Your proposal will confirm the vehicles and seating arrangements for your departure.

Concept visualisation of the BUL Mercedes-Benz Sprinter camper with an open roof tent in a mountain setting
Concept visualisation of the camper project. The final equipment and availability will be confirmed as the build progresses.
Mercedes-Benz Sprinter / In development

The next chapter of BUL.

I’m preparing a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter camper for future journeys. The project brings together a roof tent and equipment for time outdoors, with space to stop and enjoy the mountains.

Kyrgyzstan in photographs

Kyrgyzstan,
in photographs.

Moments from our journeys and landscapes across Kyrgyzstan: clear lakes, yurt camps, canyons and snowy peaks.

Places from our journeys

By the water and at the yurt camps

A tree growing among rocks beside a mountain lake
On the rocky shoreA mountain lake framed by rocks and trees.
Clear turquoise water and trees at the foot of rocky cliffs
Clear mountain waterStones on the bottom, visible through the turquoise water.
White yurts beside a lake under dark clouds
Yurts beneath the cloudsLight on the white yurts and a wide sky above the lake.
The sun setting behind yurts beneath golden clouds
Sunset among the yurtsThe last rays of sunshine before evening settles in.
An aerial view of a yurt camp along the shore of a large lake
A camp beside the lakeYurts and footpaths along the shore, seen from above.
SkiBUL / Winter Exploration 2027

Winter
together.

Seven days in Karakol and Ala-Too in Jyrgalan. Stay near the skiing, share dinner and leave time to rest.

Season
February 2027
Duration
7 days
Skiing
Karakol · Ala-Too

A programme for your group

Meet us in Bishkek or Karakol; we agree the start and finish with the group. The programme visits only Karakol and Ala-Too in Jyrgalan. We aim to ski on weekdays and plan transfers around arrivals and weather.

We arrange accommodation, meals, ski passes, trip support and the group programme. Travel with BUL or bring your own car. For own-car guests, we discuss winter vehicle preparation and any additional transfers in advance.

We plan to inspect Ala-Too personally in December 2026. After that visit, and subject to snow and resort operations, we confirm the final programme.

Pricing is individual. Equipment rental, lessons, private transfers and extra activities are agreed separately. Flights are separate; insurance and cover are discussed before booking.

Personally ledDavid explores routes, leads mountain walks and stays with the group throughout the journey.
Small by designLimited groups allow for flexible routes, unhurried days and genuine contact with the country.
Grounded locallyTransport, stays, meals and logistics are organized on the ground in Kyrgyzstan.
Memories from the journey

Guest reviews

Alexey
Expedition guest · 28 August — 5 September 2026

“The taste of wild apples — it all becomes a symphony that leaves you full of energy.”
Read the full review

I would like to thank the BUL team wholeheartedly for organising this journey. I really enjoyed the nine-day expedition through different parts of Kyrgyzstan. We saw some of the country’s most beautiful places, where the landscape can change completely in just 50 kilometres.

Thanks to well-prepared vehicles and skilled drivers, we visited breathtaking gorges with imposing, majestic cliffs, waterfalls sending torrents of water sparkling in the sunlight, and lakes hidden high in the mountains whose colours you need to see with your own eyes at least once.

Delicious food and comfortable accommodation for those who appreciate the comforts of civilisation were an integral part of the route. I especially want to thank the team for balancing activity and rest. After fairly long drives and mountain hikes, there were rest days when you could simply lose yourself watching the waves of Issyk-Kul roll onto a shore of coarse, reddish granite sand.

The rugged and incredibly beautiful vegetation of the foothills, snowy peaks, the crunch of little stones beneath trekking boots, the taste of wild apples — it all becomes a symphony that leaves you full of energy.

Throughout the journey, our hosts gave us a warm welcome and did everything they could to leave their guests with the best possible memories of the country and the expedition.

Originally published in Russian on Telegram. Translated and lightly edited for readability.

For partners abroad

Your guests.
My home, Kyrgyzstan.

For travel organisers, agencies, clubs, creators and community leaders outside Kyrgyzstan. Bring your people — let’s create their journey together.

A local host you work with directly.

You know your audience. I know my home country. Together, we can shape a small-group journey around your guests, the season and their pace.

What BUL brings

  • Route planning and personally explored mountain walks.
  • Vehicles, accommodation and meals arranged for the agreed programme.
  • David’s personal involvement, from planning to hosting the journey.
  • Local coordination of travel days and activities in Kyrgyzstan.
01 / GROUP JOURNEYS

Bring your own group.

Create a journey for your clients, club, friends or community. We discuss dates, group size, comfort and walking preferences, then build the route and ground arrangements together.

02 / RECOMMENDATIONS

Introduce your travellers.

Know people who would love Kyrgyzstan? Connect them with David to discuss a BUL journey. We agree how referrals work and any partner remuneration before cooperation begins.

From a first conversation to a shared programme.

  1. Tell us about your audienceYour country, interests, approximate dates and group size.
  2. Shape the journeyWe discuss the route, pace, accommodation, budget and language of communication.
  3. Agree the termsWe confirm the programme, responsibilities and commercial arrangements before offering the trip.

Let’s talk about your guests.

Referral remuneration or a partner programme rate is discussed individually. Start with a message to David.

Discuss a partnership ↗
Start a conversation

Come as my guest.
Discover my home, Kyrgyzstan.

Tell us what kind of journey you are looking for — private trip, small group or partnership.

Ask a question
BUL · WhatsApp

Talk to David

Enquiry type

WhatsApp will open with your message ready. Send it in the chat with David to start the conversation and continue there.